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From notes@igc.apc.org Sun Aug 27 07:07:25 1995 Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (192.82.108.1) by MediaFilter.org with SMTP (MailShare 1.0b10); Sun, 27 Aug 1995 07:07:26 -0500 Received: (from notes) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.6.12/Revision: 1.204 ) id AAA19631 for "conf-zamir.chat"; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 00:48:10 -0700 Date: 27 Aug 1995 00:24:35 Reply-To: Conference "zamir.chat"From: doctorb@ix.netcom.com Subject: Fwd: Re: 52%-48% Split A Bosniac Land-grab: Serbs Own 65% of Bosnia- To: Recipients of zamir-chat-l Message-ID: <199508270722.AAA03974@ix8.ix.netcom.com> X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Errors-To: owner-zamir-chat-l@igc.apc.org Precedence: bulk Lines: 418 From: doctorb@ix.netcom.com (. ) Subject: Fwd: Re: 52%-48% Split A Bosniac Land-grab: Serbs Own 65% of Bosnia-Herzegovina "Any American living in Germany as I do, sometimes cannot help looking around at this country - free, prosperous, democratic, ruled by law - and wondering, "What must it have been like here during the Nazi dictatorship? And all of us can, I believe, learn even more about ourselves when our actions are met with rage and anger from those who are either blind to - or who sympathize with - the men committing that aggression, terror, and brutality today in Bosnia. Just as interesting for me, though, has been the reaction of those who support the very Serbs the United Nations has indicted as war criminals." So, here is an American in the heart of the former war capital of the Third Reich comparing Serbs to Nazis, just days after the same German-American powers have armed and supported the Croatian assault on the Krajina, cleansing it of 250,000 Serbs, the virtual completion of Croatian Nazi WWII collaborator Ante Pavelic's plan. There is a large degree of historical idiocy in comparing every single picture of Bosnian Muslum casualty of civilians--during artillary duels between Muslum artillary inside the "safe area" of Sarajevo and Serbs outside it, while, for the former is "self defense" and the latter is "agression"--as further evidence of [generalized statement demonizing enemy in any war follows=] "aggression, terror, and brutality". Mladenko's comments to my '52%-48% Split A Bosniac Land-grab: 'Serbs Own 65% of Bosnia-Herzegovina' are answered in this review of history [article follows] which tend to reduce the claims of those who desire to continue the war against the Serbs by demonizing them as Nazis. Mladenko says "Your wartime butcher Draza slaughtered tens of thousands of Moslem and Croat civilians in eastern Bosnia. Never again will we feel the heel of a Chetniks boot grinding the backs of our necks." ---- Begin Forwarded Message 31277 article soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna From: jbyrne@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Johnny Byrne") Subject: Re: 52%-48% Split A Bosniac Land-grab: Serbs Own 65% of Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 > >A Croatian Ustashe apologist writes... > >Dear doctorb > >After reading your posting, I can only assume you must either be on drugs >or hope that the rest of the world is. Serbian massacres of innocents >could easily be ignored or passed over in 1945, but it is not as easy in >1995. These days we have the benefits of television to show us Serb bombs >rending children limb from limb, or their mothers' pitious wailing for >the life that can never be returned. The pools of blood on Sarajevo >streets, and the pictures of young Chetnik `war heroes' kicking the head >of an old lady they gunned down in cold blood, expose you and those of >your ilk as the gutless cut-throats you are. > >(........) > >As far as historical fact, there is nothing in your posting that >indicates your acquaitance with it. Nazism was not invented Croats or >Moslems or Mongolians for that matter. It was the brainchild of Adolf >Hitler. It is an unfortunate accident of history that Croatia was forced >into a wartime alliance with Hitler - TO AVOID BEING BUTCHERED BY SERB >CETNIKS LED BY MIHAILOVIC. Your wartime butcher Draza slaughtered tens of >thousands of Moslem and Croat civilians in eastern Bosnia. Pre war and >post war censuses indicate that. These facts you conveniently choose to >ignore. > >(............) > >Mladenko > >Well, let's see just how much pressure Hitler applied to `force' the >noble Ustashe into being allies of the nazis. > >______________________________________ > > Independent State of Croatia (1941-1945) > and its fuhrer Dr. Ante Pavelic > > > The text that follows this introduction is about one >of the most horrendous man that ever lived. It is about >Dr. Ante Pavelic, fuhrer of Croatian fascists - Ustashe. >His pictures are decorating many places in today's Croatia. >Who was Mr. Pavelic, Croatian Attila the Hun? > > In the history of the mankind it is difficult to find >monsters comparable to Ustashe, homegrown Croatian fascists. >It was only fifty years ago. Bosnian mountains as well as >mountains of Serbian Krajina are still echoing the shrieks >of hundreds of thousands of innocent victims. They were >slaughtered in the most gruesome ways just because they were >Serbs, Jews or Gypsies. > > While, for many years during the war, the apocalyptic >suffering of the Jewish people was in a realm of rumor - >the slaughter of Serbs in Croatia was on such a scale that >it was impossible to hide. > > As Mr. Edmond Paris says in the very first few sentences of >the introduction of his book "Genocide in Satellite Croatia" >(published by The American Institute for Balkan Affairs in 1961): >*Quote*: > The greatest genocide during World War II, in proportion >to a nation's population, took place, not in Nazi Germany but >in the Nazi-created puppet state of Croatia. There in the years >1941-1945, some 750,000 Serbs, 60,000 Jews and 26,000 Gypsies - >men, women and children - perished in a gigantic holocaust... > > ...The magnitude and the bestial nature of these atrocities >makes it difficult to believe that such a thing could have happened >in an allegedly civilized part of the world. Yet even a book such >as this can attempt to tell only a part of the story. >*End quote* > > Some 300 pages of the book are only scratching the subject. > > The enormity of the crime itself must be the explanation of the fact >that American public knew as early as 1942, about >the Croatian slaughter of the Serbs... In the text below, the author >mentions some 300,000 Serbs slaughtered. It is a staggering figure having >in mind that it was mentioned in 1942 - only a year after Ustashe took >power (in what is today Croatia and Bosnia)! > > The reference to the shocking truth, so easily, and so purposely >avoided in the daily media, can be easily find in >any major source of knowledge. > > For decades Encyclopedia Britannica had the following sentence when >talking about WWII in Yugoslavia: "...IN BOSNIA... THE CROATIAN FASCISTS >BEGAN A MASSACRE OF SERBS WHICH, IN THE WHOLE ANNALS OF WORLD WAR II, WAS >SURPASSED FOR SAVAGERY ONLY BY THE MASS EXTERMINATION OF POLISH JEWS". > > I found the sentence in the versions of Britannica from 1971 to 1986. > > Encyclopedia of the Holocaust which, by default full of gore galore, >still reserves the harshest words for the Ustashe. Talking about the >slaughter of Serbs it says (Vol 1, Croatia, page 323): >*Quote*: > The Ustasa regime in Croatia and particularly this drive...to >exterminate and dispossess the Serbs, was one of the most >horrendous episodes of World War II. The murder methods applied by >Ustasha were extraordinarily primitive and sadistic: thousands were >hurled from mountain tops, others were beaten to death or had their >throats cut, entire villages were burned down, women raped, people sent >on death marches in the middle of winter, and still others starved to >death... >*End quote* > > But, let us, for a second, leave the Jewish authors who were trying >so hard to describe the horror. Let us look at an >unlikely group of shocked spectators: (Worldmark Encyclopedia of Nations, >Edition 1995, Europe, Croatia, >page 91) *Quote*: The enormity of [Ustasha] behavior shocked even the >conscience of GERMAN COMMANDERS. *End quote* > > Though it looks entirely unbelievable that German Nazi (and Italian >Fascists) were shocked - there are many books, their memoirs, where they >just had to talk about their Croatian allies gruesomeness. (But the list >of those I will post some other time). > > "It all may be so, and it is shocking that this aspect of the >current conflict in Bosnia and Croatia is not even mentioned in >the Western press" (the press that claims to uphold high principles of >democracy) - you can say. "But, who cares? That is history!". (In the >American English the word "history" is only used in, relatively frequent, >crime scenes on TV, when someone is just aboutto shoot someone else. The >sentence repeated is: "You are history!"). > > The problem with history (whether you like the subject or not) is >that it tends to repeat itself. Today's Independent State of >Croatia is the copy of the Nazi puppet state of some fifty years ago. The >country has the same: name, flag, national emblem, >national anthem, currency, uniforms (black shirts). The state sponsored >atrocities toward Serbian civilians (in the areas of >Croatia where Serbs were not majority and thus could not defend >themselves) is the same. > > Encyclopedia Britannica, Edition 1943, Vol 23, page 923 (Yugoslavia >and war) describes the flag of the Croatian Ustashe: >"The new flag of Croatia consists of three broad stripes, red,white and >blue, and superimposed upon them a shield of checkered red and white >squares". > > Open then any new book that shows the international flags (or stroll >in front of the United Nations and check the flags there) and you will >easily recognize the Ustasha flag of the Nazi time. > > Why are then the Serbs, the survivors of the gruesome genocide, >defending their houses, their own property, THEIR RIGHT TO EXIST, on the >land where they were (AND ARE) majority population for last (minimum) >FIVE centuries - repeatedly called (by the "democratic"press) aggressors!? > > For anyone who cares about Democracy - should ask that >question.Could it be because Nazi, by tens of thousands, were, with help >and with knowledge of American institutions found its safe haven right >here - in America? They were proclaimed to be "freedom fighters" and got >top jobs in institutions like CIA. (You should read the recent book: >"Unholy Trinity" by Mark Aarons and John Loftus St. Martin's Press, 370 >pages, ISBN 0-312-07111-6. It gives a detailed and well documented >description of the connection between Croatian clergy and Nazis of the >world. The clergy played the the key role in infamous ratlines - the >channel of smuggling Nazis out of Europe. Needles to say ALL Croatian >fascists, ALL IMPORTANT >USTASHE escaped justice. And they, and their offspring, are quite active >in todays events - and may be - on this network). > > Sorry is the state of the world we live in - the world lead by >"democratic" America... > > Photo copies containing all of the above quotes are available. > > Compiled by: Petar Makara (Makarov) ... Petar@Watson.IBM.com > >PS: I added emphasis in the following text by using (<<<) marks. > >-------- Croatian Attila the Hun -------------- > > >CURRENT BIOGRAPHY, Who's News and Why, 1942 >Editor Maxine Block. >Published by: H.W. Wilson Company, >New York, N.Y. 1942 >Pages 651, 652 and 653. > >PAVELIC ANTE (pa've-lich an'te) May >19, 1869- Leader of the Croat state >Address: Zagreb, Croatia > > The Serbian guerrilla organization led by >General Draja Mikhailovitch at one time >issued a list of people destined for death by >assassination. First on their list was Dr. >Ante Pavelic. Pavelic's name also heads two >other lists: that of Hitler's foreign friends >and that of outstanding traitors of their coun- >tries, the so-called Quislings. > > Born in Gospic (in what today is Yugo- >slavia) on May 19, 1869, the son of Lovro >Pavelic, a merchant, Ante studied medicine and >received his M. D... > > ...In 1906 he served in the popu- >lation department of Sabor and at the same >time started his political career as president >of the Croatian Conservative Party. After >Yugoslavia was united he became vice-presi- >dent of the Narodno Vijece (people's council) >and then president of the Democratic Party in >Zagreb. > > In January 1932 Pavelic was elected presi- >dent of the Senate of the Yugoslavian kingdom >and of the Yugoslavian-Czechoslovakian >League. It has never been determined what <<< >part he played in the assassination of King <<< >Alexander I of Yugoslavia and French Foreign <<< >Minister Louis Batthou in March 1934 at <<< >Marseilles, but it is certain that he had a hand <<< >in it and it is generally assumed that he acted <<< >in the interests of Mussolini. Evading jus- <<< >tice, Ante Favelic fled to Italy, which sheltered >him for seven years and refused to expel him >for a French trial. In absentia, though, he >was sentenced to death. > > During the next few years Dr. Pavelic van- >ished from the news only to reappear the more >conspicuously as the "dark treacherous ter- >rorist" who helped invading Nazis in 1941 to >carve up Yugoslavia. It was he who, in >April that same year, directed the Croat >evolution of the Ustashe (rebels), "a band of >rapacious Croatian schemers who hated Serbs, >Jews, and Croatia's own peasants for years >and platted with Italian, Hungarian, and Ger- >man money to split Yugoslavia and bring the >Ustashe to power." And it was this revolu- >tion that exposed the Yugoslavian Army's flank >and rear and led to Yugoslavia's defeat. > > With the help of his friend, General Sladko >Kvaternik, Pavelic proclaimed Croatia an in- >dependent state on April 15, 1941. Dispatches >from Nazi-controlled Hungary described him >as President and Kvaternik as his Premier. >The new state was composed of Bosnia, <<< >Herzegovina and Dalmatia as well as the old <<< >Croat province. In a note to Mussolini and <<< >Hitler, Pavelic asked for recognition of "the <<< >independent state of Croatia." Both dictators <<< >informed the Croat leader that in the name <<< >of the Axis powers the recognition sought not <<< >only was cheerfully granted but that both <<< >powers received "with joy and satisfaction" <<< >the news that the Croat people had won their <<< >struggle for independence in an hour when the <<< >Axis powers had demolished the artificial cre- <<< >ation which once was Yugoslavia. > <<< > One of Dr. Pavelic's first acts was the ban- <<< >ing of all political parties and the prohibi- <<< >tion of all public meetings. To pay his debt of <<< >gratitude to Italy, the self-styled chief of the >Croat national government convinced his fol- >lowers that a king of Croatia, preferably an >Italian prince, would lead the little state to >new heights. The last monarch to wear the >crown -- golden clover leaves surmounted by a >cross and an apple -- had been Croatia's King >Petrus, who died in battle in 1097. Since then >the state had always been under foreign dom- >ination, most of the time Hungarian. On May >17 Pavelic went to Rome to formalize the >offer of the throne. > > The kingdom was offered to Aimone, Duke >of Spoleto, married to Irene, Princess of >Greece, and cousin of King Victor Emmanuel >of Italy. In a ten-minute ceremony, blessed >by Victor Emmanuel and Benito Mussolini, >Duke Aimone was presented with the Zvoni- >mir crown. (The crown was named for De- >metrius Zvonimir, crowned by a papal legate >in Split in 1076. Thirteen years later the >Croats killed him because they thought he >had sold out to Rome.) > > In order that the new king might not feel >deprived of an official ceremony, Dr. Pavelic >ordered the building of a new cathedral in >Banjaluka. Zagreb, the old capital, had been >abandoned in favor of Banjaluka because of >the latter's more central location in the newly >created state. Mussolini was pleased by all >this, and, believing that the new kingdom >would be an Italian puppet, agreed to the in- >clusion of Dalmatia in Croatia. He was un- >aware that four days before Pavelic's offer to >the King he had concluded an agreement with >the Nazis. The Italian press was full of >articles about the forthcoming coronation in >southern Bosnia, full of Italy's great political >triumph. But when Italian commercial dele- >gates arrived in Zagreb early in June they >found there were no Croatian exports to ne- >gotiate about -- on May 30 a commercial agree- >ment between Germany and Croatia had been >signed. Finally Count Ciano received a note >from the German envoy in Zagreb suggesting >he coronation be postponed until after the >War. In a rage, Mussolini threatened to oc- >cupy Dalmatia by force. > > On June 6, 1941 Pavelic was received by <<< >Hitler in Berchtesgaden for a two-hour con- <<< >ference. Witnesses at the meeting were <<< >Marshal Hermann Goring and Foreign <<< >Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop. The <<< >talk was one of a series of several carefully >guarded diplomatic negotiations between Axis >and Balkan leaders. The topic of the con- >versation was never disclosed, but it was be- >lieved that Pavelic asked for a guarantee of >independence and was promised that Italy >would do nothing drastic. Afterward Pavelic >presented the Fuhrer with a flag from the Sev- >en Years' War and a chess set, both formerly >belonging to King Frederic the Great. > > Barely returned from Germany, Dr. Pavelic, >went to Venice for the induction of Croatia >into the Rome-Berlin-Tokyo military alliance. >On June 15 he put his signature to a protocol >giving his country the right to be represented >at any tripartite discussion which might affect >Croatia. Replying to Count Ciano's ad- >dress of welcome, Pavelic was quoted as <<saying: "Croatia gives its full adherence to <<the principles and reasons which inspire a <<united front for creation of a new order in <<the European and Asiatic World. Croatia's <<induction into the military alliance of the <<Axis powers had immediate effect on its Jew- <<ish problem." Dr. Ante Pavelic announced <<that it would be solved "in a radical way un- <<der the German order." Also ordered by Hit- <<ler to put a "river of blood" between the Ser- <<bian and Croatian nations, Pavelic did so by <<carrying out the slaughter of some 300,000 <<Serbs living in Croatia and the destruction of <<scores of their communities. > << In August 1941, when the Nazi armies were >fully engaged in Russia, Mussolini shipped two >divisions to Dalmatia and occupied it, saying >that he had to protect the shores of Italy's >domestic sea from guerrillas. He then bom- >barded Hitler with notes demanding the par- >tition of Croatia... > > ...Ante Pavelic, "a movie producer's dream of <<< >a Balkan terrorist, is a short, blocky, grim, <<< >unsmiling man, with a knobby face and insult- <<< >ing eye." He has three children who live <<< >with their mother and who have spent most >of their lives in secret hiding places, while >their father was "out hunting kings or conspir- >ing in cellars or dodging gendarmes." > > References > Lit Digest 120:12 N 30 `35 por > N Y Times p6 My 14 `41 > Newsweek 17:25 My 26 `41; 19:41 My 4 '42 por > Who's Who in Central - and East-Europe 1937