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From notes@igc.apc.org Sat Aug 26 19:20:48 1995 Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (192.82.108.1) by MediaFilter.org with SMTP (MailShare 1.0b10); Sat, 26 Aug 1995 19:20:48 -0500 Received: (from notes) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.6.12/Revision: 1.204 ) id NAA24745 for "conf-zamir.chat"; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 13:49:09 -0700 Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 13:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: Conference "zamir.chat"From: Ivo Skoric Subject: No Subject Given To: Recipients of zamir-chat-l Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Errors-To: owner-zamir-chat-l@igc.apc.org Precedence: bulk Lines: 85 >From majordomo Sat Aug 26 04:40:00 1995 Received: (from majordomo) by igc3.igc.apc.org (8.6.12/Revision: 1.6 ) id EAA28831; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 04:39:59 -0700 Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 04:39:59 -0700 Message-Id: <199508261139.EAA28831@igc3.igc.apc.org> To: owner-zamir-chat-l@igc.apc.org From: owner-zamir-chat-l@igc.apc.org Subject: BOUNCE zamir-chat-l@igc.apc.org: Non-member submission from [Robert Bennett <100440.270@compuserve.com>] Status: U >From iskoric@igc.apc.org Sat Aug 26 04:39:55 1995 Received: from arl-img-2.compuserve.com (arl-img-2.compuserve.com [198.4.7.2]) by igc3.igc.apc.org (8.6.12/Revision: 1.6 ) with SMTP id EAA28820 for ; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 04:39:54 -0700 Received: by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id HAA16798; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 07:36:08 -0400 Date: 26 Aug 95 07:35:26 EDT From: Robert Bennett <100440.270@compuserve.com> To: PRESIDENT CLINTON Cc: 01 , 02 , 03 , 04 , 05 <74431.3674@compuserve.com>, 06 <71154.1605@compuserve.com>, 07 , 08 , 09 , 10 , 11 <5jensen_e@spcvxa.spc.edu>, 12 , 13 , 14 , 15 , 16 <131!tim003@dialcom.tymnet.com>, 17 , 18 , 19 , 20 , 21 , 22 , 23 , 24 , 25 Subject: Berlin to Sarajevo Message-ID: <950826113525_100440.270_BHG61-1@CompuServe.COM> Dear President Clinton: Any American living in Germany as I do, sometimes cannot help looking around at this country - free, prosperous, democratic, ruled by law - and wondering, "What must it have been like here during the Nazi dictatorship?" And once we ask that question, another logically follows: "If I had been alive at that time, and lived in Germany, what would I in fact have done, how would I in fact have responded to the decrees of the Party, to the Gestapo, and all the rest?" We also ask ourselves, "If I had been alive then, would I have ever struggled for the ideals that I believe in? Would I have even spoken out for those ideals? Would I have risked anything at all then?" Obvously no one can respond to that question who did not live here during the Nazi period. I think anyone can, however, learn something of a probable answer by doing whatever is possible for those people in today's world whose existence is threatened by aggression, terror, and brutality. And all of us can, I believe, learn even more about ourselves when our actions are met with rage and anger from those who are either blind to - or who sympathize with - the men committing that aggression, terror, and brutality today in Bosnia. A few months ago, after four years of feeling powerless to do anything about Serb atrocities in the Balkans, I decided to begin sending letters to you as often as I could about the war, with copies to whomever I thought might be interested. I had no idea of the reaction I would provoke. Much of it has been favorable and supportive, of course, coming from a variety of individuals, each of whom is engaging in a particular way. Just as interesting for me, though, has been the reaction of those who support the very Serbs the United Nations has indicted as war criminals. Yet this reaction too is oddly encouraging, because it shows me these letters are having an effect. It also shows people like me something important about ourselves as well, as we look around Germany today. It shows us that if we could ever have met Claus von Stauffenberg, Hans and Sophie Scholl, Christoph Probst, or any of the other hundreds and thousands of Germans who gave their lives in attempts to bring down the Nazi regime, we might perhaps have been able to look them in the eye. We might not, after all, have had to hang our heads in shame because we had done nothing to oppose the kind of evil they opposed. Sincerely yours, Robert J. Bennett From notes@igc.apc.org Sat Aug 26 19:21:39 1995 Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (192.82.108.1) by MediaFilter.org with SMTP (MailShare 1.0b10); Sat, 26 Aug 1995 19:21:40 -0500 Received: (from notes) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.6.12/Revision: 1.204 ) id NAA24741 for "conf-zamir.chat"; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 13:49:03 -0700 Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 13:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: Conference "zamir.chat" From: Ivo Skoric Subject: No Subject Given To: Recipients of zamir-chat-l Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Errors-To: owner-zamir-chat-l@igc.apc.org Precedence: bulk Lines: 82 >From majordomo Fri Aug 25 02:25:47 1995 Received: (from majordomo) by igc3.igc.apc.org (8.6.12/Revision: 1.6 ) id CAA04584; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 02:25:47 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 02:25:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199508250925.CAA04584@igc3.igc.apc.org> To: owner-zamir-chat-l@igc.apc.org From: owner-zamir-chat-l@igc.apc.org Subject: BOUNCE zamir-chat-l@igc.apc.org: Non-member submission from [Robert John Bennett ] Status: U >From iskoric@igc.apc.org Fri Aug 25 02:25:42 1995 Received: from eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by igc3.igc.apc.org (8.6.12/Revision: 1.6 ) with SMTP id CAA04571; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 02:25:35 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA14580; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 11:25:01 +0200 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 11:15:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: Robert John Bennett Subject: Your Message To: Ivo Skoric cc: President Clinton , 100440.270@compuserve.com, 131!tim003@dialcom.tymnet.com, 5jensen_e@spcvxa.spc.edu, 71154.1605@compuserve.com, 74431.3674@compuserve.com, AmComSaBos@aol.com, Balkaninst@aol.com, BosNet@cu23.crl.aecl.ca, bosnews@doc.ic.ac.uk, Brentxxx@aol.com, daleh@efn.org, dc42@cornell.edu, fastx@sky-tv.com, GMKURZON@aol.com, haberman@eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, IHT@eurokom.ie, mag@news.nbc.com, MVANDIVER@MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU, nightly@news.nbc.com, ucklasl@ucl.ac.uk, Vice.President@whitehouse.gov, wobidot@eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, young@henson.cc.wwu.edu, zamir-chat-l@igc.apc.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: Ivo Skoric, Founder, Zamir Chatline Hi Ivo, Many thanks for your last message. I definitely agree flames should be limited to private communication. If any of my letters have sounded like flames, I apologize. I'm sorry too that my messages haven't seemed appropriate for the Zamir chatline. Thank you for suggesting the names of other forums. I'll add them to my distribution list. If you don't mind, though, I'd also like to keep sending my letters to Zamir (except for a week around the middle of September when I have to teach an out-of-town seminar, and so I'll be off-line). Of course I know you can bounce the letters or delete them or edit them or forward them or do whatever you want with them. Please forgive me for doing this, because I know the messages are upsetting and irritating to a number of your subscribers. However, I'm afraid I'm one of those individuals who thinks that people in fact should be upset and irritated by anything that has to do with the war in your homeland and in Bosnia. After all, the people of Croatia and Bosnia have been far more than just upset and irritated by that obscene conflict. I'm convinced the war has to stop, and it has to stop under conditions where there is a just peace. If enough people are upset and irritated, I believe, then a solution will be found more quickly. If everyone ignored my messages, if there were no response at all, and if I thought the letters were having no effect of any kind on anyone, then I would stop. However, people seem unable simply to ignore them - which greatly surprises me - and so I would like to continue. I think you can understand all this, because I have some sense of the kind of person you are, after reading the pieces you've written - which, as I've indicated, I admire a great deal. So, my friend, the one who silences me will have to be you - by simply deleting my messages from the chatline. The fact of the matter is that I feel too strongly about the Balkan war, and all the death and suffering it has brought in its train, to be able to silence myself. Wishing you, sincerely, every success not only with your writing but with everything you do, Bob Bennett