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From notes@igc.apc.org Thu Aug 10 17:12:06 1995 Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (192.82.108.1) by MediaFilter.org with SMTP (MailShare 1.0b10); Thu, 10 Aug 1995 17:12:06 -0500 Received: (from notes) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.6.12/Revision: 1.203 ) id LAA00916 for "conf-zamir.chat"; Thu, 10 Aug 1995 11:46:27 -0700 Date: 10 Aug 1995 11:15:21 Reply-To: Conference "zamir.chat"From: oggie_sokolovic@triad_004.triad.org Subject: Re: Bosnia: 44% Muslum, 31% Serb, 17% Croat To: Recipients of zamir-chat-l Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199508092330.QAA10302@ix3.ix.netcom.com> X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Errors-To: owner-zamir-chat-l@igc.apc.org Precedence: bulk Lines: 96 From: oggie_sokolovic@triad_004.triad.org (Oggie Sokolovic) Subject: Re: Bosnia: 44% Muslum, 31% Serb, 17% Croat >From: doctorb@ix.netcom.com (. ) >Subject: Bosnia: 44% Muslum, 31% Serb, 17% Croat > > Bosnia: 44% Muslum, 31% Serb, 17% Croat > > "The United States formally recognized the Republic of >Bosnia and Herzegovina, one of six constituent republics of the >former Yugoslavia, as a sovereign state in April 1992, following >a free and fair referendum in which 63 percent of its voters >endorsed independence. (1) > > You mean 37% of the population voted AGAINST the formation >of 'Bosnia'? And we're not mentioning those who boycotted the >election altogether. > No. Nobody voted for or against FORMATION of Bosna i Hercegovina simply because Bosnia was established some ten centuries ago. Great majority of Bosnian citizens voted for INDEPENDENCE. As you said once, Yugoslavia was the sinonym for "greater serbia", and great majority of Bosnian citizens did not want to live in such kind of federation. > "Bosnia's population consisted of 4.4 million people before >the war, 44 percent of whom were Muslim, 31 percent Serb, 17 >percent Croat, and 8 percent other nationalities." (2) > > "Within days of the Republic declaring its independence, >elements of the JNA, supported by Serbian nationalist militias, >launched attacks throughout northern and eastern Bosnia and >Serbian Democratic Party leader Radovan Karadzic declared the >establishment of the "Republika Srpska" or "Serb Republic." (1) > > Between the declaration of independance in April l992 and > > ". . October 1993, some 200,000 Bosnians were said to have >died as a result of the conflict; over 800,000 became refugees >outside Bosnia; and another 1.2 million were displaced within >the nation." (2) > > By end of 1994 > "The estimated number of dead neared the quarter-million >mark, ." > > To recap: The first 18 months, 200,000 "were said to have >died as a result of the conflict". The next 14 months, up to >50,000 [1/4 million minus 200,000] were "estimated. . dead". > The first 1 1/2 of the war took the most lives. Where were >the speeches on the House floor about ethnic cleansing and >genocide then? The killing had substantially slowed. In l995 up >through May 1 95 it practically came to a standstill. > Nevertheless, the former U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency >head was in Croatia late last year training them for the assault >they accomplished on the Republica Serpska Krajina, producing, in >three days, 1/4 million terrified Serbian refugees. > President Milosevic, who assisted the Bosnian Serbs in >establishing the Krajina, stayed out of it this time in hopes of >having the embargo against his country lifted. > In what sense is the embargo against Milosevic different >from the Serb encirclement of Sarajevo? In degree only: They are >both acts of war. Technically the U.S. is at war with Cuba, in >that it attempts to strangulate it's economy with an embargo. >[This is to show the world what an abject failure communism is.] > Apart from all this talk of lifting the arms emabargo >against Bosnia, in what sense does it still exist since Peter >Tarnoff, Undersecretary for Political Affairs said > "In compliance with the Nunn-Mitchell Amendment, we have >ended our participation in enforcement efforts against Bosnia >but continue to honor the arms embargo." (3) > So, besides an opportunity to harangue the world about how >dedicated they are about stopping genocide, on the eve of the >Croatian blitzkreig they have planned for the Krajina, what >function did the debate have other than mass psychological >deception, and propoganda for the assault? > I remeber: it was so these brave humanitarians could vote to >end humanitarian aid, put their European tails between their >UNPROFOR legs, get out, and leave Bosnia to the international >arms racketeers. > > > >(1) BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA HUMAN RIGHTS PRACTICES, 1994 > AUTHOR: U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE > DATE: FEBRUARY 1995 >(2) BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA HUMAN RIGHTS PRACTICES, 1993 > DATE: JANUARY 31, 1994 > AUTHOR: U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE >(3) U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE DISPATCH > VOLUME 6, NUMBER 26, JUNE 26, 1995 > Ognjen Sokolovic From notes@igc.apc.org Thu Aug 10 17:12:06 1995 Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (192.82.108.1) by MediaFilter.org with SMTP (MailShare 1.0b10); Thu, 10 Aug 1995 17:12:07 -0500 Received: (from notes) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.6.12/Revision: 1.203 ) id KAA23377 for "conf-zamir.chat"; Thu, 10 Aug 1995 10:46:55 -0700 Date: 10 Aug 1995 10:38:11 Reply-To: Conference "zamir.chat" From: jbennett@eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de Subject: A Lot to Admire: CIA and SKY To: Recipients of zamir-chat-l Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Errors-To: owner-zamir-chat-l@igc.apc.org Precedence: bulk Lines: 66 From: Robert John Bennett Dear President Clinton: Something has happened that made me proud of your administration, but disappointed with the American media. On British television available here in Munich by satellite, the report of a CIA official discussing the apparent mass grave of thousands of Srebrenica males has been given great prominence. The official was shown stating that not only was the fresh mass grave a result of recent Serb atrocities, he was also quoted as saying, "the atrocities committed by the Bosnian Serbs are unequaled in their scope and intensity." The same British channel (SKY-TV) then interviewed a Serb journalist in Belgrade who was asked what the reaction of Serbs was to this CIA report. He said that Serbs were angry because of the "timing" of these allegations, especially when Serbs are suffering battlefield losses and being driven from the Krajina. Incredible. Serbs are not concerned about the content of the story, only about its "timing?" The next part of SKY-TV's report showed Madeleine Albright - as beautiful as one of the three Fates in a Wagnerian opera - sitting in judgment in the Security Council and preparing to accuse Serbia of still more war crimes. But what did the American channels available in Europe report? CNN mentioned the mass grave story practically only in passing - certainly not to the extent that SKY-TV discussed it. CNN, however, did give much air time to the plight of the Krajina Serbs. CNN hardly referred to the fact that the Serbs, according to CIA allegations, murdered hundreds, if not thousands, of military-age Moslem men from Srebrenica. CNN does report, on the other hand, that Krajina Serbs have been "harassed" on their way to safety in Serbia. One wonders: what about the thousands of Bosnian men and boys buried in that mass grave who - according to the CIA - were not simply "harassed" by the Serbs but murdered by them? CNN reports that Krajina Serbs are "angry" because "the world stood by while they lost their country." That is what makes some of us here in Europe think that perhaps there is some justice on this earth after all: the world has stood by for the last four years while the Bosnians have lost THEIR country to the Serbs and while the people of Sarajevo have suffered the most horrific siege since Leningrad, fifty years ago. It is not easy for us here to feel much sympathy for the Serbs, even though most of them are victims too, victims of Slobodan Milosevic, Radovan Karadzic, General Mladic, and their henchmen. Sincerely yours, Robert J. Bennett Munich